[zeromq-dev] decentralize git with pub/sub
Harald Achitz
harald.achitz at gmail.com
Mon Jul 29 11:03:56 CEST 2019
git by its nature is already decentralized
using it with tools like github make it centralized
Am Mo., 29. Juli 2019 um 08:25 Uhr schrieb alex. <thissideup at riseup.net>:
> Alas, "hosting yourself" is a murky concept:
> - Do you run your service on a virtual server? Then who hosts your vServer?
> - Do you run your service on bare metal? Then who hosts your datacenter,
> where the metal is located?
> - Do you run your bare metal on your own internet connection? Then who
> is your provider?
>
> The fact of the matter is is that there is no jurisdiction-free
> cyberspace and moreover the jurisdictions of independent countries do
> slowly catch up to the technology. And such a debate is pointless
> anyway. It's also not the question at hand.
>
> So let's get back to the initial question: a decentralized git. The fact
> of the matter is is that git is a decentralized protocol. The irony of
> the matter is is that a lot of platforms spruced up leveraging git,
> adding incredible features - but being centralized. If C4 requires bug
> tracking and pull requests, then that is a problem for decentralization.
>
> However, it should be possible to make those platforms work in a
> decentralized manner. I.e. multiple entry-points for submitting, polling
> and reviewing. Note though that a decentralized infrastructure always
> comes at increased maintenance costs. Plus the development cost. But
> that's one option.
>
> Another option is we look into free (as in freedom and in beer) hosting
> alternatives outside of the US, e.g. in a EU-based datacenter. While "if
> a foreign company does business with US businesses but also Iranian
> businesses, it is a target of those US sanctions" is true, it's also
> true that the EU plans to reimburse that EU-based company's losses so as
> to nullify these sanctions.
>
> In any case, ZeroMQ is not the only dev project having these problems.
> Communication, concertation and solidarity is key here.
>
> alex.
>
> On 7/29/19 7:26 AM, Esa HekmatiZadeh wrote:
> > I checked gitlab service today and yes, gitlab also prevent Iranian
> access.
> > I'm not familliar with email based patching and development in this
> > style, also I think C4 requires bug tracking and pull request mechanism.
> > Harald is right and if you host gitlab yourself then you are free from
> > rules of hosting services.
> > It's not a matter if this host located in US, until it doesn't have any
> > trade. Like Savanneh service
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 03:02 Harald Achitz, <harald.achitz at gmail.com
> > <mailto:harald.achitz at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > I think when you run gilab your own, you can run it on whatever
> > server you want in any country, and can allow access to whom ever
> > you want
> > of course, for free hosting you need to follow the rules of the one
> > who does the hosting for you
> >
> > so there are 2 aspects, the git software, which is git,
> > usermanangment, issue tracker, etc...,
> > github gitlab bitbucket gitteaGogs, .... the list is rather long
> >
> > and the git software hosting, where some have the same name as their
> > produces, github gitlab bitbucket,
> > so there are companies that provide a hosting service and of you use
> > their services and you have to follow the rules of them
> >
> > https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitHosting
> >
> > the problem is, if there is no financial baking, and you are
> > depended on free services , the non US options seem to be limited
> >
> > I heard / read that kernel devs still use mail ...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Am So., 28. Juli 2019 um 22:02 Uhr schrieb Benjamin Henrion
> > <zoobab at gmail.com <mailto:zoobab at gmail.com>>:
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 8:48 PM Esa HekmatiZadeh
> > <esa.hekmat at gmail.com <mailto:esa.hekmat at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Benjamin
> > > Thank you to mention this issue here, actually yesterday
> > GitHub suspended my account because I live in Iran. There are a
> > long list of platforms and even free software websites that are
> > forbidden for countries you have mentioned and I think this is
> > completely against freedom.
> >
> > I just moved myself to Iran for Github software development:
> >
> > https://github.com/zoobab
> >
> > > Gitlab does not ban users from these countries yet, also
> > GItlab is GPL licensed and we can host it ourself in a
> > subdomain, for example, gitlab.zeromq.org
> > <http://gitlab.zeromq.org> but this approach requires extra
> > maintenance and a server to run Gitlab.
> >
> > It seems Gitlab.com is also based in the US.
> >
> > > https://savannah.nongnu.org/ is another option hosted by FSF
> > foundation.
> >
> > Hosted in Fremont, CA, United States.
> >
> > As long as the US has jurisdiction, you are lost.
> >
> > I was looking for friendly countries that do not have trade
> > sanctions
> > with Iran, it seems the US with all its allies (probably in the
> > sense
> > of NATO) have trade sanctions with Iran.
> >
> > Nat Friedman, CEO of Github, seems to say that moving to another
> > country does not matter, as if a foreign company does business
> > with US
> > businesses but also Iranian businesses, it is a target of those
> US
> > sanctions.
> >
> > What we have to do is to implement cyberspace, where law makers
> > don't
> > have a say. That might be utopic, but the bricks are getting
> there.
> > ZeroMQ might be one of those bricks.
> >
> > --
> > Benjamin Henrion (zoobab)
> > Email: zoobab at gmail.com <http://gmail.com>
> > Mobile: +32-484-566109
> > Web: http://www.zoobab.com
> > FFII.org Brussels
> > "In July 2005, after several failed attempts to legalise software
> > patents in Europe, the patent establishment changed its strategy.
> > Instead of explicitly seeking to sanction the patentability of
> > software, they are now seeking to create a central European
> patent
> > court, which would establish and enforce patentability rules in
> > their
> > favor, without any possibility of correction by competing courts
> or
> > democratically elected legislators."
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