[zeromq-dev] decentralize git with pub/sub

alex. thissideup at riseup.net
Mon Jul 29 08:17:13 CEST 2019

Alas, "hosting yourself" is a murky concept:
- Do you run your service on a virtual server? Then who hosts your vServer?
- Do you run your service on bare metal? Then who hosts your datacenter,
where the metal is located?
- Do you run your bare metal on your own internet connection? Then who
is your provider?

The fact of the matter is is that there is no jurisdiction-free
cyberspace and moreover the jurisdictions of independent countries do
slowly catch up to the technology. And such a debate is pointless
anyway. It's also not the question at hand.

So let's get back to the initial question: a decentralized git. The fact
of the matter is is that git is a decentralized protocol. The irony of
the matter is is that a lot of platforms spruced up leveraging git,
adding incredible features - but being centralized. If C4 requires bug
tracking and pull requests, then that is a problem for decentralization.

However, it should be possible to make those platforms work in a
decentralized manner. I.e. multiple entry-points for submitting, polling
and reviewing. Note though that a decentralized infrastructure always
comes at increased maintenance costs. Plus the development cost. But
that's one option.

Another option is we look into free (as in freedom and in beer) hosting
alternatives outside of the US, e.g. in a EU-based datacenter. While "if
a foreign company does business with US businesses but also Iranian
businesses, it is a target of those US sanctions" is true, it's also
true that the EU plans to reimburse that EU-based company's losses so as
to nullify these sanctions.

In any case, ZeroMQ is not the only dev project having these problems.
Communication, concertation and solidarity is key here.


On 7/29/19 7:26 AM, Esa HekmatiZadeh wrote:
> I checked gitlab service today and yes, gitlab also prevent Iranian access. 
> I'm not familliar with email based patching and development in this
> style, also I think C4 requires bug tracking and pull request mechanism. 
> Harald is right and if you host gitlab yourself then you are free from
> rules of hosting services. 
> It's not a matter if this host located in US, until it doesn't have any
> trade. Like Savanneh service
> On Mon, 29 Jul 2019, 03:02 Harald Achitz, <harald.achitz at gmail.com
> <mailto:harald.achitz at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     I think when you run gilab your own, you can run it on whatever
>     server you want in any country, and can allow access to whom ever
>     you want
>     of course, for free hosting you need to follow the rules of the one
>     who does the hosting for you
>     so there are 2 aspects, the git software, which is git,
>     usermanangment, issue tracker, etc...,
>     github gitlab bitbucket gitteaGogs, .... the list is rather long
>     and the git software hosting, where some have the same name as their
>     produces, github gitlab bitbucket,
>     so there are companies that provide a hosting service and of you use
>     their services and you have to follow the rules of them
>     https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitHosting
>     the problem is, if there is no financial baking, and you are
>     depended on free services , the non US options seem to be limited
>     I heard / read that kernel devs still use mail ...
>     Am So., 28. Juli 2019 um 22:02 Uhr schrieb Benjamin Henrion
>     <zoobab at gmail.com <mailto:zoobab at gmail.com>>:
>         On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 8:48 PM Esa HekmatiZadeh
>         <esa.hekmat at gmail.com <mailto:esa.hekmat at gmail.com>> wrote:
>         >
>         > Hi Benjamin
>         > Thank you to mention this issue here, actually yesterday
>         GitHub suspended my account because I live in Iran. There are a
>         long list of platforms and even free software websites that are
>         forbidden for countries you have mentioned and I think this is
>         completely against freedom.
>         I just moved myself to Iran for Github software development:
>         https://github.com/zoobab
>         > Gitlab does not ban users from these countries yet, also
>         GItlab is GPL licensed and we can host it ourself in a
>         subdomain, for example, gitlab.zeromq.org
>         <http://gitlab.zeromq.org> but this approach requires extra
>         maintenance and a server to run Gitlab.
>         It seems Gitlab.com is also based in the US.
>         > https://savannah.nongnu.org/ is another option hosted by FSF
>         foundation.
>         Hosted in Fremont, CA, United States.
>         As long as the US has jurisdiction, you are lost.
>         I was looking for friendly countries that do not have trade
>         sanctions
>         with Iran, it seems the US with all its allies (probably in the
>         sense
>         of NATO) have trade sanctions with Iran.
>         Nat Friedman, CEO of Github, seems to say that moving to another
>         country does not matter, as if a foreign company does business
>         with US
>         businesses but also Iranian businesses, it is a target of those US
>         sanctions.
>         What we have to do is to implement cyberspace, where law makers
>         don't
>         have a say. That might be utopic, but the bricks are getting there.
>         ZeroMQ might be one of those bricks.
>         --
>         Benjamin Henrion (zoobab)
>         Email: zoobab at gmail.com <http://gmail.com>
>         Mobile: +32-484-566109
>         Web: http://www.zoobab.com
>         FFII.org Brussels
>         "In July 2005, after several failed attempts to legalise software
>         patents in Europe, the patent establishment changed its strategy.
>         Instead of explicitly seeking to sanction the patentability of
>         software, they are now seeking to create a central European patent
>         court, which would establish and enforce patentability rules in
>         their
>         favor, without any possibility of correction by competing courts or
>         democratically elected legislators."
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