[zeromq-dev] distributed message bus on top of / built with zeromq?

Pieter Hintjens ph at imatix.com
Fri Sep 12 12:03:32 CEST 2014

Hi Holger,

I'll answer this very briefly. Yes, you can build what you need on top
of ZeroMQ and hit your goals of cost, openness, and performance.
Development effort will be reasonable. Yes, we will provide support,
during and after this process. Please contact me directly if you want
to set that up.

Pieter Hintjens

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Holger Joukl <Holger.Joukl at lbbw.de> wrote:
> Dear all,
> this is my first post to this list so please bear with my rather lengthy
> thoughts.
> I'm working in a financial markets environment and am currently looking
> into
> alternatives for near-realtime trade data message delivery (contracts or
> deals, not market data ticks).
> Traditionally we are using Tibco TIB/Rendezvous (and I've extensive
> experience with it)
> which has its merits of being mature and rock-solid, but it is truely
> expensive.
> Much the same holds true for IBM's WebsphereMQ which is also used in our
> house already.
> We need guaranteed or certified delivery for our data, ideally with a
> quality of service of
> exactly-once-delivery, At-least-once may also be possible if duplicate
> delivery is a rare
> cornercase. To the best of my knowledge even TIB/Rv doesn't provide
> exactly-once-delivery though
> the docs don't really explicitly state this, at least in its standard CM
> (certified messaging) notion. But I've never
> personally encountered duplicated RV message delivery in a decade.
> Now, the obvious candidates for replacing the big beasts would be one of
> the AMQP bunch but
> of course all of those require a central broker/server. As I really like
> TIB/Rv's distributed nature
> I'm now evaluating the use of  zeromq (as in: toying around with the idea).
> Alternatives that I can see:
> 1. Stay with TIB/Rv.
> + distributed architecture
> + proven battle-tested solution
> + reliable (in a sense of a company not about to vanish soon) commercial
> support by its creators
> - immense license and support fees.
> 2. Use one of the AMQP products (which?):
> + open source
> + open standard, so theoretically interchangeable implementations (see
> below for standards issues)
> + commercial products available (e.g. Red Hat MRG with QPid under the hood,
> or VMWare Pivotal RabbitMQ)
> + commercial support available
> - central broker/server as a single point of failure (needs its own
> HA/clustering/failover, dedicated monitoring,
> dedicated administration)
> - standardization process seems a mess and might actually have rendered the
> original AMQP initiative
> goals useless; though it looks like 1.0 now has rather widespread adoption
> I somehow have a lurking
> uncomfortable feeling
> 3. Roll your own solution, possibly based on zeromq
> + open source
> + open standard
> + full control over the architecture, can be fully distributed
> + flexibility, a lot of usage patterns
> + commercial support available (?)
> - development effort, maybe massive (?)
> Some additional alternatives might be: Moving this onto WebsphereMQ (also
> expensive), using
> Apache Kafka, maybe the Spread library (seems to have hard message size
> limits).
> I'm thinking about the possibilities of creating some kind of lightweight
> distributed pub-sub message bus with
> zeromq using multicast. Actually much like TIB/Rv conceptually so I wonder
> a bit why nobody seems to have
> done this yet with zeromq ;-). At least I'm not aware of it so I hope
> that's not a totally inappropriate way
> to use zeromq...?
> Here goes:
> 1. (E)PGM or NORM for multicast? zeromq-NORM is not yet in the latest
> release version of zeromq.
> 2. I understand it is not possible to use several publishers on one host
> using the same multicast group
> and port with (E)PGM due to NACKS only getting back to one publisher.
> (referring e.g. to this thread:
> http://grokbase.com/t/zeromq/zeromq-dev/127t25hcex/zmq-mcast-loop-with-pgm
> But I'm confused by these posts in this thread:
> http://grokbase.com/t/zeromq/zeromq-dev/127t25hcex/zmq-mcast-loop-with-pgm#2012080893pabdv3gkhg18wrqtbnp81gz8
> http://grokbase.com/t/zeromq/zeromq-dev/127t25hcex/zmq-mcast-loop-with-pgm#20120809x9w6d4tw53aft99tgb1sf7mwy4
> Is it impossible to have one publisher per host using the same multicast
> group + port? Why?
> Because if it actually is possible than it shouldn't be too hard to create
> s.th. much like TIB/Rv's daemon approach, i.e. a bus
> comprised of dedicated daemons on every host where the actually messaging
> clients connect to. The daemons
> handle all of the actual multicast communication.
> Does NORM also have this restriction/caveat?
> 3. Guaranteed or certified delivery (QoS) would have to be layered as an
> applicaton protocol on top of this. Again,
> this could borrow from TIB/Rv concepts, i.e. publishers storing sent
> messages persistently until they have been acknowledged
> by all known/registered receivers.
> Has anybody done s.th. like this already? I haven't been able to find
> something like it, apart from some
> general discussion on "reliability".
> 4. I understand zeromq does not impose limits on the message size. Is this
> correct?
> I'd be grateful for any insight.
> Best regards
> Holger
> Landesbank Baden-Wuerttemberg
> Anstalt des oeffentlichen Rechts
> Hauptsitze: Stuttgart, Karlsruhe, Mannheim, Mainz
> HRA 12704
> Amtsgericht Stuttgart
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