[zeromq-dev] CZMQ community & red cards

rf at q-leap.de rf at q-leap.de
Fri Oct 17 13:29:01 CEST 2014

>>>>> "Pieter" == Pieter Hintjens <ph at imatix.com> writes:

Hi Pieter,

apart from a mini contribution (CVE assignment) my role in this project
is only that of a user, but I don't think that should matter too much for
the purpose of this discussion.

In my opinion Goswin (who is working on ZMQ for a project here at
Q-Leap) has been bashed enough now and I certainly don't want to negate
the justification for the blame concerning some of his comments. But
this discussion was extremely one-sided. I believe your behavior in this
dissent had a lot of room for improvement as well.

    Pieter> Sorry... this is the last thread:
    Pieter> https://github.com/zeromq/czmq/pull/733

    Pieter> Related older threads from CZMQ:

    Pieter> - https://github.com/zeromq/czmq/pull/725

Can't see any reason for a red card here.

    Pieter> - https://github.com/zeromq/czmq/pull/673

Neither here.

Let's cite some facts:
Citation Pieter (https://github.com/zeromq/czmq/pull/733):
"Making mistakes and doing broken things is part of our work. We deal
with that politely, and nicely."

Citation Pieter (https://github.com/zeromq/czmq/pull/673):
"What are we supposed to do with that? I don't even want to read the
code, it looks like vomit. ... Can you please remove all the crap"

Judge yourself. Your two statements sound like a contradiction to
me. And it wasn't that Goswin started with this tone in 673. Would you
have tolerated this from Goswin? If not, why do you tolerate it from
yourself? Bringing in such a tone begs for aggressive answers ...


Citation Pieter
(http://lists.zeromq.org/pipermail/zeromq-dev/2014-October/027559.html )
"You have not accepted any criticism at all. You show no regret, or

After a heated discussion in https://github.com/zeromq/czmq/pull/698,
Goswin clearly shows his intent to play with the rules (last two


Citation Brian
"We do not merge everything and then fix it if it is broken. Your statement
is empirically false."

Citation Pieter (https://github.com/zeromq/czmq/pull/673):
"I treat a pull request as a request to merge. I blindly merge everything,
and fix up afterwards (or complain if that feels too painful) :-)"

Hmm, which one is right now???


Final comments:

Important rules for anyone to claim leadership: Obey the rules you set
yourself. And be open for criticism (yes, it sometimes hurts).

I think this episode and the whole discussion was not something, that this
project can be proud of. You can just continue like you did, or start
thinking about the mistakes, you made just like others should think about
theirs to avoid them in the future. In my opinion, the latter would be highly
beneficial for the actors credibility, authority and respect ... and the
project ...

It was my idea to contribute the stuff we're doing in the project at
Q-Leap back to the community. But this obviously didn't work out. So be
it. To be honest, now I don't really care anymore. For others being
interested in the code we develop: We'll probably keep our repo
available and updated at GitHub. Please note, this is not supposed to be
a fork or anything abusive :) Take the code (if so with a copyright
assignment) or leave it.

If you still want me to do the CVE assignment for the project, that's
fine. I'll continue doing it. Otherwise let me know.



http://www.q-leap.com / http://qlustar.com
          --- HPC / Storage / Cloud Linux Cluster OS ---

    Pieter> Also at least one long and confused thread on this group.

    Pieter> -Pieter

    Pieter> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 2:15 PM, <rf at q-leap.de> wrote:
    >>>>>>> "PH" == Pieter Hintjens <ph at imatix.com> writes:
    >> Hi Pieter,
    PH> I'd like to get feedback on a thread[1] regarding what I
    PH> consider to be unacceptable behavior from a CZMQ contributor.
    >> you forgot to add the reference ([1]) to this thread. Could you
    >> please send it as well?
    >> Thanks,
    >> Roland
    >> ------- http://www.q-leap.com / http://qlustar.com
    >> --- HPC / Storage / Cloud Linux Cluster OS ---
    >> _______________________________________________ zeromq-dev
    >> mailing list zeromq-dev at lists.zeromq.org
    >> http://lists.zeromq.org/mailman/listinfo/zeromq-dev

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