[zeromq-dev] Note on help in IRC [constructive criticism, I hope]

Pieter Hintjens ph at imatix.com
Fri Jul 25 10:26:13 CEST 2014

I love that video... "do easy things." +1

/me goes to rip out some more hard stuff from CZMQ... :)

On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 5:17 AM, Michel Pelletier
<pelletier.michel at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ah, those days do get short don't they.
> I am not the person Jonas interacted with in the IRC channel, but I did see
> it go by.  I would like to take this opportunity to point out that that you
> are a very helpful member of the community who I have witnessed help many
> people solve their problems, and I would like to thank you for the many
> hours of assistance as the days get shorter for us all.  If we ever meet, I
> owe you a beer.
> Jonas, where this whole thing went south is that before you decided to jump
> on the irc and ask for help, and then send your grievances around the world,
> you didn't exert the one calorie of effort required to type a print
> statement, as you did elsewhere in your code, to verify that your thread
> started.  Consider that polite, constructive criticism.
> This video will also help you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9pEzgHorH0
> -Michel
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Pieter Hintjens <ph at imatix.com> wrote:
>> Raising an issue is good. Sending us a patch is better. By that, I
>> mean, why not squat on the IRC channel, spend some months there
>> reading everything, and try to answer other peoples' questions when
>> you can, and show how to be polite and patient... it is after all an
>> open space for anyone to talk, not run by anyone in particular, not
>> moderated, and it's as good or bad as we make it, together.
>> I used to spend a lot of time on the IRC channel, however, my days got
>> shorter.
>> If you think there are important things that the man pages or the
>> Guide skip, or don't explain well, help us fix that.
>> It's always interesting to stumble, or watch others stumble, to learn
>> what aspects aren't clear, could be simpler, or better designed or
>> documented.
>> On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Jonas Thiem <jonasthiem at googlemail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I'd like to point out a highly subjective help experience on IRC.
>> >
>> > I had a simple ROUTER/DEALER test case and tried to trim it down to
>> > the essential things to make it easy for people to point out my
>> > mistake. However, I messed up the following things:
>> > 1. I used a thread for the server, but I forgot to call .start() on the
>> > instance
>> > 2. I missed the fact from the zmq_socket api reference that ROUTER
>> > needs to deal with the delimiters themselves (I wrongly assumed this
>> > would be some detail handled inside pyzmq)
>> >
>> > The reaction was the following:
>> > 1. I was sent away and told to return once I read the whole ZMQ guide
>> > 2. I should learn Python first
>> >
>> > People miss things in the manual, and I'd like to point out this is
>> > probably not the best way to handle help requests. When I tried to
>> > diplomatically point that out in the channel (at least I hope I did, I
>> > tried to), I was told I was "worth an ignore".
>> >
>> > Sorry if I annoyed people on IRC. It really wasn't my intention. But I
>> > hope it is seful to you if I note down here that from my subjective
>> > point of view, the response wasn't that amazing either.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Jonas Thiem
>> >
>> > PS: If you think I am an idiot and annoying, I am very sorry. Please
>> > try to ignore this message and I hope I won't bother you further. Just
>> > trying to help improve the support response - if the fault is with me,
>> > then I apologize.
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > zeromq-dev at lists.zeromq.org
>> > http://lists.zeromq.org/mailman/listinfo/zeromq-dev
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