[zeromq-dev] An interesting use-case for EdgeNet : Asynchronous IRC?

crocket crockabiscuit at gmail.com
Wed Jan 8 10:29:26 CET 2014


Do you plan to submit Vector to play store in the near future?
On Jan 8, 2014 10:00 AM, "Sean Robertson" <sprobertson at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ah wow that's exactly what this needed. I'll try to spend some time
> this weekend porting it and moving things over to the edgenet org.
>
> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 2:45 AM, Pieter Hintjens <ph at imatix.com> wrote:
> > Sorry, forgot to provide the link to Jyre, it's here:
> > https://github.com/zeromq/jyre
> >
> > Written by the one and only miniway.
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Pieter Hintjens <ph at imatix.com> wrote:
> >> Wow, awesome!!
> >>
> >> There is Jyre, a Java implementation of Zyre 1.0 (since then, I
> >> removed FileMQ from Zyre and simplified the API).
> >>
> >> If you use Jyre (and perhaps update it), it'll interoperate with Zyre
> >> and we can then look at making protocols that interoperate. I'd been
> >> aiming to make the core stack in C, but you're already so far along in
> >> Java...
> >>
> >> I've added you to the admin team for the github/edgenet organization;
> >> if you want you can move (rename) vector to that organization.
> >>
> >> At this stage, I think if we can get proofs of concept working we're
> >> doing really well.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Sean Robertson <sprobertson at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> Here's my current attempt at an edgenet messaging app -
> >>> https://github.com/spro/Vector
> >>>
> >>> All that works right now is shouting into a shared room, but it's
> >>> using the edgenet design of UDP presence beacons & individual dealer
> >>> -> router connections to achieve that. I wasn't sure how to go about
> >>> compiling zyre into the project but it attempts to use the proper ZRE
> >>> beacon format. (The messaging protocol doesn't comply at all (yet))
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 4:03 PM, Pieter Hintjens <ph at imatix.com> wrote:
> >>>> Interesting. There are so many avenues for fun stuff. Right now the
> >>>> challenge is just to get the basic libzmq+czmq+zyre+drops stack
> >>>> building on Android.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Lindley French <lindleyf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>> Now that I've read Chapter 8 completely, I'm quite certain I could
> help get
> >>>>> zyre working on Android once I get hold of a phone. For one thing,
> I've
> >>>>> already created a very similar system for Android, so many of the
> same
> >>>>> lessons should apply. It was a bit bizarre how similar my solution
> to peer
> >>>>> messaging was to Zyre, actually----I found myself nodding many times
> >>>>> throughout that chapter. UDP beacons for discovery, pooled TCP
> connections
> >>>>> for peer messaging, the need for a HELLO message of sorts (although
> in my
> >>>>> case, it went out with every new TCP connection, so port reuse
> wasn't an
> >>>>> issue). I also sympathize entirely with the problems of setting up
> 30-phone
> >>>>> simulations, at least until our python codebase matured to automate
> the
> >>>>> process and we created a tool to issue ADB commands to all the
> phones in
> >>>>> parallel.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This tells me that we're both probably on the right track.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The main differences were:
> >>>>> 1) Mine was written in almost pure Java (one or two Android-specific
> things
> >>>>> made it in).
> >>>>> 2) I had to manage the TCP connections myself since I didn't use
> 0MQ. Also,
> >>>>> messages flowed both ways across a single connection between peers
> rather
> >>>>> than using multiple connections as in the Harmony pattern.
> >>>>> 3) I put a lot of effort into giving senders a confirmation that
> their
> >>>>> message had made it, or letting them know I wasn't able to confirm
> it, using
> >>>>> a java Future and messaging ACKs.
> >>>>> 4) I had a capability to supplement the beacon broadcasts with
> additional
> >>>>> beacon unicasts to specified addresses. This turned out to be all
> that was
> >>>>> necessary to create geographically distant "peers" under controlled
> >>>>> circumstances. (I didn't address discovery of what addresses to
> unicast to.)
> >>>>> 5) The system was created from the start to be edge-oriented rather
> than
> >>>>> node-oriented. That is, a peer was defined both by the destination
> and the
> >>>>> interface used to reach it.
> >>>>> 6) I never attempted group messaging, although I was aware it was a
> >>>>> desirable goal.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Pieter Hintjens <ph at imatix.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Lindley, would you be able to help get Zyre et all working on
> Android?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:44 PM, Lindley French <lindleyf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>> > Oh---and some network functionality shuts down on Android when the
> >>>>>> > device is
> >>>>>> > inactive if you don't take the appropriate lock. This is a
> critical
> >>>>>> > consideration when designing edge networking services.
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> > On Jan 1, 2014, at 1:17 PM, Lindley French <lindleyf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> > On Android at least, if you have any trouble with UDP broadcast or
> >>>>>> > multicast, you should trying using the IPv6 all-hosts address.
> Android's
> >>>>>> > built-in filtering doesn't seem to affect IPv6 the same way as
> IPv4.
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> > On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 12:10 AM, Sean Robertson <
> sprobertson at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> > wrote:
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >> I have something like this in the works, in the form of an iOS
> >>>>>> >> application
> >>>>>> >> that I hope to soon port to Android. It doesn't properly use
> Zyre but
> >>>>>> >> rather
> >>>>>> >> my own haphazard  reimplementation, due to some silliness with
> Apple's
> >>>>>> >> UDP
> >>>>>> >> broadcast (https://github.com/zeromq/czmq/issues/297). The UI
> works
> >>>>>> >> decently
> >>>>>> >> though. I'll send the code to this list later this week.
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >> On Dec 31, 2013 6:38 PM, "Lindley French" <lindleyf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>> Asych twitter is a good idea and will work well. I've seen it
> done.
> >>>>>> >>> Another fun application is async push to talk.
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>> On Dec 31, 2013, at 9:32 PM, crocket <crockabiscuit at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>> May asynchronous twitter be more appropriate for my idea?
> >>>>>> >>> Asynchronous twitter, asynchronous IRC, whatever.
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:19 AM, crocket <
> crockabiscuit at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> With asynchronous IRC software, you can choose your nickname
> and a
> >>>>>> >>>> topic.
> >>>>>> >>>> You send messages that belong to a topic.
> >>>>>> >>>> People who subscribed to that topic receive your message.
> >>>>>> >>>> Or they might choose to receive messages from every topic.
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> This becomes very interesting when population density goes up
> very
> >>>>>> >>>> high
> >>>>>> >>>> in a small area.
> >>>>>> >>>> Imagine that you went to comiket. Wikipedia says "Comiket
> (コミケット
> >>>>>> >>>> Komiketto?), otherwise known as the Comic Market (コミックマーケット
> Komikku
> >>>>>> >>>> Māketto?), is the world's largest dōjinshi fair, held twice a
> year in
> >>>>>> >>>> Tokyo,
> >>>>>> >>>> Japan."
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> ~590,000 people attended comiket last summer. It basically
> looks like
> >>>>>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Comiket77.jpg
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> With hundreds of thousands of people in a small area,
> asynchronous
> >>>>>> >>>> IRC
> >>>>>> >>>> becomes fun.
> >>>>>> >>>> Not as fun as the near-synchronous one we have now, but still.
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> I think asynchronous IRC may entice people to adopt EdgeNet
> starting
> >>>>>> >>>> from big meetups.
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>>
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> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>
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> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>> >
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