[zeromq-dev] An interesting use-case for EdgeNet : Asynchronous IRC?

Pieter Hintjens ph at imatix.com
Tue Jan 7 01:03:18 CET 2014


Interesting. There are so many avenues for fun stuff. Right now the
challenge is just to get the basic libzmq+czmq+zyre+drops stack
building on Android.

On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 10:12 PM, Lindley French <lindleyf at gmail.com> wrote:
> Now that I've read Chapter 8 completely, I'm quite certain I could help get
> zyre working on Android once I get hold of a phone. For one thing, I've
> already created a very similar system for Android, so many of the same
> lessons should apply. It was a bit bizarre how similar my solution to peer
> messaging was to Zyre, actually----I found myself nodding many times
> throughout that chapter. UDP beacons for discovery, pooled TCP connections
> for peer messaging, the need for a HELLO message of sorts (although in my
> case, it went out with every new TCP connection, so port reuse wasn't an
> issue). I also sympathize entirely with the problems of setting up 30-phone
> simulations, at least until our python codebase matured to automate the
> process and we created a tool to issue ADB commands to all the phones in
> parallel.
>
> This tells me that we're both probably on the right track.
>
> The main differences were:
> 1) Mine was written in almost pure Java (one or two Android-specific things
> made it in).
> 2) I had to manage the TCP connections myself since I didn't use 0MQ. Also,
> messages flowed both ways across a single connection between peers rather
> than using multiple connections as in the Harmony pattern.
> 3) I put a lot of effort into giving senders a confirmation that their
> message had made it, or letting them know I wasn't able to confirm it, using
> a java Future and messaging ACKs.
> 4) I had a capability to supplement the beacon broadcasts with additional
> beacon unicasts to specified addresses. This turned out to be all that was
> necessary to create geographically distant "peers" under controlled
> circumstances. (I didn't address discovery of what addresses to unicast to.)
> 5) The system was created from the start to be edge-oriented rather than
> node-oriented. That is, a peer was defined both by the destination and the
> interface used to reach it.
> 6) I never attempted group messaging, although I was aware it was a
> desirable goal.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Pieter Hintjens <ph at imatix.com> wrote:
>>
>> Lindley, would you be able to help get Zyre et all working on Android?
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 8:44 PM, Lindley French <lindleyf at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Oh---and some network functionality shuts down on Android when the
>> > device is
>> > inactive if you don't take the appropriate lock. This is a critical
>> > consideration when designing edge networking services.
>> >
>> > On Jan 1, 2014, at 1:17 PM, Lindley French <lindleyf at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > On Android at least, if you have any trouble with UDP broadcast or
>> > multicast, you should trying using the IPv6 all-hosts address. Android's
>> > built-in filtering doesn't seem to affect IPv6 the same way as IPv4.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 12:10 AM, Sean Robertson <sprobertson at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I have something like this in the works, in the form of an iOS
>> >> application
>> >> that I hope to soon port to Android. It doesn't properly use Zyre but
>> >> rather
>> >> my own haphazard  reimplementation, due to some silliness with Apple's
>> >> UDP
>> >> broadcast (https://github.com/zeromq/czmq/issues/297). The UI works
>> >> decently
>> >> though. I'll send the code to this list later this week.
>> >>
>> >> On Dec 31, 2013 6:38 PM, "Lindley French" <lindleyf at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Asych twitter is a good idea and will work well. I've seen it done.
>> >>> Another fun application is async push to talk.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Dec 31, 2013, at 9:32 PM, crocket <crockabiscuit at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> May asynchronous twitter be more appropriate for my idea?
>> >>> Asynchronous twitter, asynchronous IRC, whatever.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:19 AM, crocket <crockabiscuit at gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> With asynchronous IRC software, you can choose your nickname and a
>> >>>> topic.
>> >>>> You send messages that belong to a topic.
>> >>>> People who subscribed to that topic receive your message.
>> >>>> Or they might choose to receive messages from every topic.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This becomes very interesting when population density goes up very
>> >>>> high
>> >>>> in a small area.
>> >>>> Imagine that you went to comiket. Wikipedia says "Comiket (コミケット
>> >>>> Komiketto?), otherwise known as the Comic Market (コミックマーケット Komikku
>> >>>> Māketto?), is the world's largest dōjinshi fair, held twice a year in
>> >>>> Tokyo,
>> >>>> Japan."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ~590,000 people attended comiket last summer. It basically looks like
>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Comiket77.jpg
>> >>>>
>> >>>> With hundreds of thousands of people in a small area, asynchronous
>> >>>> IRC
>> >>>> becomes fun.
>> >>>> Not as fun as the near-synchronous one we have now, but still.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I think asynchronous IRC may entice people to adopt EdgeNet starting
>> >>>> from big meetups.
>> >>>
>> >>>
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